If one needs at least 10% formaldehyde(?) in alcohol(?) to disinfect a TB
(Mycobacterium t.) specimen and 30% formic acid(?) to "kill" a prion, what
is it that the poor safety person is concerned about.  It is clear that many
folks who are given the responsibility for institutional safety have
concerns that are based on perception, fact or requirements imposed by the
disposal company.  It is important to question such concerns with a sure
sense of the composite risk of the material(s) IN question.  Most of what
may appear as 'blood' in fixative may be a coagulum of hemoglobin and other
proteins (AND lipids).   By pouring off the clear portion of a mixture, one
does NOT purify it in any way.  Safety will be, if it isn't already, a major
sub-discipline of chemistry-physics-biology.  There are few if any of us who
are equally conversant in all three disciplines.  There are few safety
officers who are capable of testing the wastes for which they are
responsible for chemical, physical OR biological hazards.  There is only one
solution to this problem while we wait for the Safety Officer's salary to
reach into the millions of dollars per year to attract the legion of
geniuses who will ultimately save us from ourselves.  

WE MUST talk with them.  They receive requirements and are responsible for
corporate obligations to which most of us are not privy.  They attempt to
translate those responsibilities into action across the corporation.  Then
they have to make decisions about how to treat this clear liquid (ethanol)
and that clear liquid (cacodylate buffer) which may or may not be correctly
labeled.  

It is important to derive a consensus concerning how to distinguish the
interfaces between chemical solutions, body fluids and tissues.  These
concerns should be discussed and resolved in such a manner that the three
local parties involved (the originator, the safety officer and the disposal
agent) can develop a practice that adequately addresses the concerns,
responsibilities and limitations of each.  55 gallons of very slightly
PCB-tainted oil may have to be transported from Pennsylvania to Texas to get
it out of your storage area.  When you generate the waste, you are concerned
neither with difficulty of disposal nor cost of disposal.  Somebody else
will be.  

I close as I began.  What is the real, perceived or forced concern with
'bloody' waste formaldehyde solution?  Each of us may have to resolve that
question with a person like no other on the continent.  If WE don't
understand the individual and composite risks of our own wastes, why should
anyone else?  

An argument about turf which is merely about terminology is a fight that
should not happen.  Smoking is said to cause cancer, but it probably always
does that in synergy with something else.  Which, then, is the real hazard?

Hope this adds to the discussion,

Fred Monson

Frederick C. Monson, PhD   
Center for Advanced Scientific Imaging
Schmucker II Science Center
c/o Geology/Astronomy
West Chester University
South Church Street and Rosedale Ave
West Chester, Pennsylvania, USA, 19383
Phone:  610-738-0437
FAX:  610-738-0437
fmonson@wcupa.edu
CASI URL:  http://darwin.wcupa.edu/casi/
WCUPA URL:  http://www.wcupa.edu/
Visitors URL:  http://www.wcupa.edu/_visitors/

THINKING IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT THAN MEMORIZING.


> ----------
> From: 	Carrie Kyle-Byrne
> Sent: 	Tuesday, September 10, 2002 12:36 PM
> To: 	'HistoNet@Pathology.swmed.edu'
> Subject: 	Re: Interesting point! formalin separation from tissues for
> disposal
> 
> just another reason to use the formalin neutralizing solutions and dump
> down
> the drain.....
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gayle Callis" 
> To: "Horn, Hazel V" ;
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 8:59 AM
> Subject: Interesting point! formalin separation from tissues for disposal
> 
> 
> > Vinnie,
> >
> > Hazel brings up a good point.  Next question, is what do you do with the
> > separate blood and lipid waste? Has your safety people thought of that?
> or
> > do you have a way to dispose of these in another manner?
> >
> > Maybe looking into formalin recycling would be a good choice, since you
> > have to do so much work to satisfy the safety people.  Then the only
> waste
> > you have to dispose of is what is left in bottom of recycling unit,
> small
> > by comparison to volumes of formalin.  Personally, I don't think one can
> > separate lipid out totally, it makes a colloidal solution (hope I am
> > thinking correctly here) and I am sure everyone has seen cloudy formalin
> > from very fatty tissue - and if you can't get it all out, what does your
> > safety people make you do then??
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> >
> > At 09:02 AM 9/10/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > >I don't know if I can offer a reasonable solution, but wouldn't these
> > >elements be harmless as they are fixed?   I don't understand their
> reasoning
> > >for this.   Is the waste company that hauls the spent formalin away
> > >suggesting this?    We have to pour ours off as well.
> > >I sure hope this isn't something that will come my way.    I'll be
> > >interested in replies to this thread.
> > >Hazel
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Vinnie Della Speranza [SMTP:dellav@musc.edu]
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 8:43 AM
> > >> To: histonet@pathology.swmed.edu
> > >> Subject: formalin separation from tissues for disposal
> > >>
> > >> I know that this topic has been discussed on the list numerous times
> > >> before however we are being faced with a slightly different slant
> that
> I
> > >> would welcome your input on.
> > >>
> > >> Our Safety dept. has become conerned that our waste formalin contains
> > >> blood and lipid that they feel must be separated from the formalin
> before
> > >> it can be carted away.
> > >> We currently use a filtering funnel when pouring off the waste
> formalin
> > >> but this won't extract the lipid and blood which are in liquid
> suspension
> > >> in the formalin.
> > >>
> > >> Has anyone else been required to address this issue? I'm hoping
> someone
> > >> can offer a reasonable solution that will satisfy our Safety folks.
> > >>
> > >> thanks
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Vinnie Della Speranza
> > >> Manager for Anatomic Pathology Services
> > >> Medical University of South Carolina
> > >> 165 Ashley Avenue  Suite 309
> > >> Charleston, SC 29425
> > >> Ph: 843-792-6353
> > >> fax: 843-792-8974
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Gayle Callis
> > MT,HT,HTL(ASCP)
> > Research Histopathology Supervisor
> > Veterinary Molecular Biology - Marsh Lab
> > Montana State University - Bozeman
> > 19th and Lincoln St
> > Bozeman MT 59717-3610
> >
> > 406 994-6367 (lab with voice mail)
> > 406 994-4303 (FAX)
> >
> > email: gcallis@montana.edu
> >
> >
> 
> 
>