Re: [Fwd: Re: copper control]

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Katri Tuomala wrote:
> Subject: Re: copper control
> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 12:25:21 -0400
> From: Katri Tuomala <>
> To: Heike Grabsch <>
> References: <>

We use a Rhodanine method, found, I believe, in the Sheehan
book. If you are unable to find it, contact me with your
fax number, and I'll send it.

Briefly, there is a stock solution of saturated alcoholic rhodanine
(NOT rhodamine), which is diluted 3 mL to 40 mL d. water.
Slides are allowed to stain for 1 hour at 60 degrees C (a
microwave version can also be used - heating for about
20-30 seconds, and allow to set at room temp for 5 min.). Rinse
well in d. water, counterstain in hematoxylin for 3-5 seconds,
allow to blue in running water, and run up through alcohols to
xylene. Coverslip.

As for copper controls:

- fetal liver will work, sometimes. We found that near full-term
who die immediately before birth, during birth, or immediately
after birth, have the most amount of copper in them. If the
fetus died in utero several hours previous to delivery, there
does not seem to be any copper in the liver. If the infant
lived for several hours after delivery, there does not seem
to be any copper in the liver. You end up testing many near
full-term fetuses before you find a good copper liver.

- Terrier - these is a terrier dog (??Wiltshire??) that sometimes
has a large amount of copper in its liver, and has a condition
similar to Wilson's disease. See if one of the local veterinary
hospitals does autopsies on these dogs. They might be willing
to give you some of the liver.

- Rat or Lizards - I've been told that city rats that like
water condensation off copper pipes, and desert lizards who
do the same thing, are also another possible source for
copper in liver. Personally, I don't live near a desert,
and so far, I've never felt the urge to chase down a rat
in a back alley of Pontiac or Detroit. I've often wondered
about taking a white lab rat and feeding it a copper salt
in its diet, and seeing if any copper stayed in its liver,
but again, I'm not certain of the metabolism of copper

> Heike Grabsch wrote:
> >
> > Hi Fellow Histonetters,
> >
> > in case you are suspecting M.Wilson, which means excessive copper storage
> > for example in the liver, what sort of staining do you use and what sort
> > of positive control?
> > And is any body able to send us a positive control tissue block?
> >
> > thanks for your help,
> >
> > Dr. Heike Grabsch
> > Dep. of Pathology
> > University of Duesseldorf
> > Moorenstrasse 5
> > 40225 Duesseldorf
> > Germany
> Hi Heike,
> I know there are more specific copper methods, but we use the Shikata's
> Orcein method for Australia antigen, which our pathologists seem to be
> happy with. We have a small supply of Wilson's disease as a control, but
> I have heard that fetal liver tissue could be used. I am about to
> investigate this for us. If I can be of help any further, let me know.
> Katri
> Katri Tuomala
> Anatomical Pathology
> St.Joseph's Hospital
> Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Peggy A. Wenk, HTL (ASCP)
Anatomic Pathology
Wm. Beaumont Hospital
3601 W. 13 Mile Rd.
Royal Oak, MI 48073-6769

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