Sorry to disagree with disagreement. Interesting comments. Plus you can
"overdecalcify' with any of the common acids, even formic - hence necessity
for endpoint test.   

I never had problems with swelling using the formic acid/HCl mixture
(Richman, Gelfand Hill, 1947 Arch Path 44:92. and have hundreds whole rat
knee tissue sections to prove it. This was decalcifying method passed on to
me from AFIP orthopedic histopathology aka bone and mineral laboratory
years ago. I saw huge bones from human and animal decalcified with this
mixture at their lab, and they were excellent preparations.  The important
thing is that the bone was COMPLETELY FIXED with NBF before any
decalcification was started and xray tested to completion, and I never left
knees (or other huge bones from bovine, sheep, goat or dog) in decalcifier
overnight, particularly near endpoint.  However, I may have reduced
swelling since I rinse bone briefly, then immerse into either 70% ethanol
or NBF to interupt the decalcification process near endpoint or at end of a
week. A whole rat knee was usually decalcified in 2 days with the
formic/HCl mixture.      

I have colleagues who used formic/HCl decalcifier before bone IHC
controlled with testing. They also did not report swelling but did interupt
decalcification near endpoint by reimmersion into NBF. Our technics were
basically identical.   

As for immunostaining considerations, some argue that the faster calcium is
removed by strong acids, the less damage there is to tissue antigens with
exception of immunoglobulins. However, endpoint testing is necesary. I
would be more inclined to stay with buffered formic acid.

For mouse feet/ankles, rat feet/ankles, with many tiny bones involved and
in my experience, they actually took longer to decalcify than whole femurs
or tibias.  The skin, toenails, connective tissues, and tight proximity of
the bones seems to slow things down (that was a surprise!) and goes for
fixation too.  It was very evident that endpoint testing on feet/ankles
samples is extremely important (xray saved the day!) or the final sections
were poor, crunchy things.   They also take some extended processing to
have good infiltration of paraffin. The problems occuring with your bone
preparation may be more than decalcification woes, it may be a combination
of factors stemming from fixation, decalcification or processing -
reevaluate carefully what has been done from fresh tissue to finished
product.         


This is a At 08:47 AM 5/15/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Jennifer
>I prefer to use Kristensen's solution (1948). This is a mixture of
>sodium formate formic acid.
>340 gms sodium formate
>1700 ml. 90% w/v formic acid.
>Distilled water to 10 liters
>can be made up and stored at RT for several months.
>Need to use in a fume hood.
>Need to have specimen well fixed before starting decalcification.
>As Gayle pointed out this c an be used fro some IHC especially if
>decalcifying at cold temperatures.
>
>For large specimens such as entire dog jaws can use a  much lower
>concentration with approximately 1-2% concentration of formic acid and
>this allows some control. Need to stop maceration when carrying out
>longer term decalcification by refixing in NBF.
>
>I cannot agree with Gayle re adding hydrochloric acid to a formic acid
>mixture. While this may speed up the decalcification process, it has a
>tendency to swell and as she pointed out to overdecalcify. Hydrochloric
>acid alone has been used for some studies for IHC against some types of
>collagen.
>If you are looking for speed and routine histology can still use 1-5%
>nitric acid with meticulous attention to end point. I prefer using
>X-rays (if they are available to you).
>Barry
>
>
>Barry R. J. Rittman, Ph.D.
>UTHHSC Dental Branch
>6156 John Freeman avenue
>Houston, TX. 77030
>713-500-4134
>
>HOOVER_JENNIFER@LILLY.COM wrote:
>
>>
>>                 Hello Histonetters!  I promise, no more questions
>> concerning Elmer's Glue!:-)  My next quandry.......what kind of formic
>> acid do you use for bone decalcification?  I have looked in the Sigma
>> catalog and there are many to choose from. Also is the final pH a
>> concern or do you just prepare a 5% solution?  I did consult my
>> histology books but there isn't too much detail.  Thank you for any
>> suggestions!
>>
>>
>> Jennifer Hoover
>> Eli Lilly and Company
>
>
>
>
Gayle Callis
MT,HT,HTL(ASCP)
Histopathology Supervisor
Veterinary Molecular Biology
Montana State University - Bozeman
Bozeman MT 59717-3610

406 994-6367
404 994-4303 (FAX)