[Histonet] Re: Nuclear Envelope/Membrane (Vernon Dailey) (Richard)

From:"Eric Mahoney"

>>>  04/10/08 1:04 PM >>>

I do have personal experience with Popo3 Iodide.  In fact in an hour
from now I will be staining with it...  But, our cells are fixed in 5%
TCA for 48 hours in 4degree and then frozen sections.  Our Popo3 is from
Invitrogen Cat #P3584.  I do not have a reference at hand right now
other than I use it and you can do a PubMed search for Popo3 Iodide as
well.  If you are doing Immunostaining, you can not use Popo3 and Cy3
2Ab because they light up the same channel in confocal.  I use Popo3 and
Cy5 2Ab.  I hope this all helps!  Feel free to email me with further
questions:  Eric.Mahoney@cchmc.org

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Today's Topics:

   1. antibodies to myosin for fast twitch and slow twitch	striated
      muscle (Della Speranza, Vinnie)
   2. Histo vacancies (Martin, Gary)
   3. Re: Re: Nuclear Envelope/Membrane (Vernon Dailey) (Richard)
   4. RE: Histonet Vacancies (Morken, Tim)
   5. AW: [Histonet] antibodies to myosin for fast twitch and slow
      twitchstriated muscle (Andi Kappeler)


Message: 1
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:44:54 -0400
From: "Della Speranza, Vinnie" 
Subject: [Histonet] antibodies to myosin for fast twitch and slow
	twitch	striated muscle
To: "histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu"
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Can someone recommend a source for antibodies to myosin that will
differentiate fast and slow twitch fibers? Preferably products you use
and are happy with.

Thank you,

Vinnie Della Speranza
Manager for Anatomic Pathology Services
Medical University of South Carolina
165 Ashley Avenue Suite 309
Charleston, South Carolina 29425
Ph: (843) 792-6353
Fax: (843) 792-8974


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:07:45 -0700
From: "Martin, Gary" 
Subject: [Histonet] Histo vacancies
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

I have been reading these listing with great interest ... Dan's writing
prompted this listing.  I am one of those people who fell into histology
because we did not have backup for our "certified" histo tech at our
pathology lab.  I do not have the "proper education" to qualify for a
certification.  The histo tech that I backup helped very little in my
training, and shares a bit of the attitude I read on this listing
sometimes, which is everybody should be certified or else they are not
credible techs.  I came in on my weekends and after hours to train
myself on expired blocks, while putting myself through Freida Carson's
self instruction text. 


I do agree that it is probably best to be officially trained, but with
the shortage I believe that there should be some sort of variance to the
rules (there may be ... but I haven't found it).  I presently work with
the local high schools in a program I helped developed called the Health
Academy, which introduces students to different areas of health care via
a shadowing program.  The shadowing program and the presentations we
give in the class rooms provide a great opportunity to introduce these
student to histology.  The question from these students is "where do you
get trained for this ,how long does it take, and what are the wages"
The answer to that question is usually not what they want to hear
(exampled by these listings).  One kid told me "if you get accepted to
the plumbers training program through the union, you will start working
on the job immediately, and be earning about thirty to forty thousand a
year.  Your requirements are, to attend school a couple of times a week
(in the evenings) for four years.  After completion you are a journeyman
earning fifty to seventy thousand a year.  Very hard to compete with
that ! 

I don't know what the answer is, but it seems to me the restriction are
getting tighter.  I think there should be some levels of training
allowed with an easier way to move forward to deeper training on the
job. Thanks to all who have read and participated in this very
interesting discussion




Message: 3
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:19:52 +0100
From: "Richard" 
Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re: Nuclear Envelope/Membrane (Vernon Dailey)
Message-ID: <000d01c89b1e$53560690$0200a8c0@delldim4500>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="UTF-8"

Eric said, and I respond:

>>> Use POPO3 Iodide, it is a nuclear membrane stain.  

This is in live intact cells is it?
If so, have you a reference for this Eric, or indeed personal
experience? I looked at the Invitrogen site for POPO3 [yes] and at their
list of references and couldnt see anything plausible Do tell!

Bye --- Richard Horobin

Note: I'll be away at a conference, and hanging out with buddies, in
Vermont from the 17th April to 6th May 2008.

Academic: Div Neuroscience & Biomedical Systems, IBLS, University of
Home: Springbank, 20 Tomcroy Terrace, Pitlochry PH16 5JA, Scotland
T 01796-474480 -- E RichardWHorobin@tomcroy.co.uk
"One does not need to live a burden-driven life"


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 11:36:55 -0400
From: "Morken, Tim" 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Histonet Vacancies
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

 Patty, Thanks for the link to the new program. And the histology "DSI"
game on the site is brilliant!!

Tim Morken

-----Original Message-----
From: histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-bounces@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Patti
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:41 AM
To: Dan Dan; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: Re: [Histonet] Histonet Vacancies

Well said, Dan. I do have one small caveat, there is a new school in the
Northwest, Tacoma WA area. It is at Clover Park Technical College. Check
it out at www.cptc.edu. The area histotechs have been quite supportive,
and I think the program is off to a great start.

Patti Loykasek BS, HTL, QIHC
PhenoPath Laboratories
Seattle, WA

> I'll add my two-cents worth. It's hard to believe that after 25 years 
> in this business that the histotech "shortage" situation is pretty 
> much the same as it was long ago. There have certainly been 
> improvements in education and training of people in histology, but for

> the most part (99%??) people just fall into histology rather than pick

> it at some point in school. In fact, it is a very rare day when I meet

> someone who went to school for histotechnology, At this date there is 
> still only one school on the west coast, and it is not the same school
that existed for a while in Seattle!
> The new one is in southern california. I looked into starting a 
> histotechnology course here in the SF Bay Area, but it takes a long 
> while with lots of justification and scrounging for equipment and if I

> wanted to do it full time the pay would be half as much as I make now.

> I could do it part time but then I'd be working 60-70 hours a week 
> rat> the local junior colleges. I may expand that to high schools. I know 
> they are interested in getting speakers, but finding the time...
> I work in the biotech field as an IHC lab manger. We don't require 
> HT/HTL/QIHC (though would love to have them!)but it is still very 
> difficult to get experienced histotechs and nearly impossible to get 
> experienced IHC techs around here. Most of the people I interview are 
> from the research field who may have done some IHC at some point. And 
> the ones who have good IHC experience are making very high salaries 
> that our company gags at matching. It is not possible to recruit out 
> of the Bay Area because the cost of housing is so high that no one 
> that is not already living here can afford to move here. Even getting 
> someone from southern cal is difficult - justifiying relocation 
> expenses is difficult. It is kind of a joke that the experienced IHC 
> techs know each other and spend their careers trading places at the 
> varioius companies. Anthony is quite right that it takes a lot of
effort to educate HR and upper management about the need for higher pay.
> They really have a hard time justifying the same pay for a 
> technologist that a new PhD will also make.
> On top of that we have loads of (legal) immigrants from Asia here and 
> they are quite willing to work for lower pay to get a start. It is 
> very common to have PhD level people, and even immigrant MD's (who 
> can't get board certified here, mainly due to lanquage difficulties)
working as lab techs.
> Who is going to hire a AA/BS histotech when they can get a PhD who is 
> happy to do the work and able to contribute to R&D at a higher level 
> than most techs?
> There is a huge disparity between what hospitals and private 
> diagnostic labs pay. The local Kaiser labs and Univeristy hospital 
> labs pay in the $35 per hour range for basic histology. Senior IHC 
> techs are in the $45 range. Those places have unions which is why the 
> pay is so high. On the other hand, private labs will pay 
> experieinced,certified people almost that much, but new, inexperienced

> people may be paid $15-20/hr and the lab is not willing to help them 
> get to their HT/HTL because they don't want to pay them more, and 
> could lose them to the hospitals once trained. This is not speculation

> but things I have had told to me first hand from techs who work in
these places.
> It is a little harder now for histotechs to be trained on the job due 
> to the AA requirement. Most OJT people I have met were working in the 
> hospital at some other job - lab assisant, dishwasher, etc before 
> getting (accidently) into histology. A person working on an AA is 
> probably not working in those jobs and probably does not even know a
histology lab exists.
> Obviously the need is to get exposure for histotechnology. The NSH 
> makes brochures and videos available and does a career day for high 
> schools students at the national meeting every year (I've helped at 
> those). This is a good foundation. But it will really take every state

> society and every interested histotech to do SOMETHING to promote the 
> field. Science teachers at high schools are very interested in having 
> working people come in to talk about a field. If someone in every city

> could do that it would go a long way towards promoting the field. 
> Maybe the key is to have NSH come up with a standardised presentation 
> that anyone can give along with some props to make it a tactile
> But, after the promotion you have to realize that it takes a huge 
> amount of initiative on the students part to follow through. They have

> to start work on, or finish, an AA /BS degree, make contact with a lab

> that is interested in training people, get the position, do on-the-job

> (maybe at the same time as school) and THEN work on learning the 
> matieral for an HT/HTL pretty much alone. Their facing a 3 to 4 year 
> process. Longer if they get a bachelors degree> Starting HT/HTL study groups would be a good way to get people
> This is the kind of thing a state society can do. Individuals can to 
> it as well, but it helps to have a group for motivation.
> Of course, that is why it has not happened - it depends too much on a 
> few super-motivated individuals. The schools don't hear of a demand 
> and so do not have programs. No programs means students never hear 
> about it. Since students don't hear about it they can't even consider
it. A vicious circle.
> Imagine if the schools had students asking about courses leading to 
> histotech certification or at least a chance at a job that leads to 
> certification. That gets the schools attention. Junior colleges 
> especially are very interested in providing trained people to the 
> local job market. For them jobs = program justification.
> Think about it.
> Dan in Danville (a pseudonom to allow free speech)
> Dear Pam:
> For a long time histologists have gotten the short end of the stick. I

> believe that the current situation is a symptom of the problem and is 
> due to a history of underpayment.
> We cannot solve the problem by artificial means. This country is based

> on the free market system. We must work with the system not against 
> it, but first we must clearly understand the problem: Not enough 
> techs, increasing barriers to entry into the profession, lack of 
> visibility, no central planning to fix or even research the problem.
> We need to work to bring up the wages of HTs all across the country. 
> If we do this, we will bring Histology to the attention of people in 
> education at the moment.
> We can only get out of it by concentrating on increasing the number of

> facilities that are prepared to take on new graduates and spend the 
> time to get their practical skills up to speed.
> I think you are doing a valuable job bringing this situation back to 
> the surface. We need to keep the momentum up and not let it die on the

> vine of this valuable forum as a forgotten conversation. So, I ask my 
> peers: What can we do to address this situation in an organized, 
> effective manner? Who in our profession is responsible for being our
> Finally, Pam, I want to say for myself that I encourage all
> I will never be offended by a question, and I will always try to 
> answer questions in a way that remembers there is a person behind it. 
> No flame retardant needed here.
> I make my money from placing people on a temporary and permanent
> I am also a Histologist first and foremost and believe that patient 
> safety is number one and understaffed laboratories experience more
> Keep up the good work, Pam.
> All my best,
> Anthony Williams BSc. HT
> Histotech Exchange LLC
> 19 Whitmore St.
> Lexington, VA 24450
> T 1 (302) 383 9780
> F 1 (540) 463 3583
> anthony@histotechexchange.com
>> I know this is a problem that has plagued facilities for years and I
>> too have noticed a change in the past 2 years. Yes, the histology
>> programs nationwide produce a great albeit small group of talented
>> people every year but the pool of available histo techs for permanent
>> positions has shrunk even more in recent years. At the risk of being
>> "flamed" by travel companies I have to say that you are losing alot 
>> of
>> techs to travel positions. In the past 2 years of all of the histo
>> techs I have had contact with over half only want to work in 
>> permanent
>> positions the rest either want to continue as travelers or become
>> travelers. Think about it... they get a higher rate of pay, benefits
>> and living expenses paid for. For these people it is a "better deal"
>> than committing to one facility. As a matter of fact it is a "better
>> deal" than a temp/travel position in any other field outside of
>> healthcare. Faciliti>> techs are contributing to the shortage. May I offer some solutions? 
>> Some
> creative hiring strategies?
>> Here are some ideas I would like to share:
>> 1. If you are using travel techs do it with a temp to perm clause -
>> but be firm. If a tech works for you as a temp make sure they are at
>> least considering converting to a permanent employee at the end of 
>> the
>> contract. If not don't extend, have your travel company send someone
>> else who would consider converting to a permanent position. And make
>> questions about their intentions part of your interview process the
>> same as you would if you were interviewing a candidate from out of
>> state for a permanent position.
>> 2. Human Resources - Many of your allied health recruiters don't seem
>> to realize that histo techs don't grow on trees. So many times I see
>> facilities lose great techs because the hiring process has dragged 
>> out
>> and the candidate ends up taking a position with a facility that can
>> move faster. Stay on top of your hr people especially once you know
>> they have a histology candidate.
>> 3. How about techs from Canada? There are alot of talented techs in
>> Canada that are interested in moving to the states and the process is
>> relatively easy due to NAFTA and the F1 visa.
>> 4. How about techs that need sponsorship on an H-1 visa? I know alot
>> of companies shy away from this alternative because of the length of
>> time it can take to process a visa application but I think that if 
>> you
>> take a look at the time it takes to find a tech at all against the
>> time it would take to process an H-1 visa it is quickly becoming 6 of

>> one
> vs.
>> half dozen of another. I mean what difference does it make if it
>> takes up to 8 weeks to process an H-1 visa vs. 2-3 months to identify
>> a histology candidate?
>> Your best bet is to get with your Human Resources department and
>> strategize, educate them on the challenges and shortages you are
>> Discuss some of these options or others you might come up with.
>> I hope this helps!!
>> Thank You!
>> Pam Barker
>> President
>> Specialists in Allied Healthcare Recruiting
>> 5703 Red Bug Lake Road #330
>> Winter Springs, FL 32708-4969
>> Phone: (407)657-2027
>> Cell: (407)353-5070
>> FAX: (407)678-2788
>> E-mail: relia1@earthlink.net
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:20:50 +0200
From: "Andi Kappeler" 
Subject: AW: [Histonet] antibodies to myosin for fast twitch and slow
	twitchstriated muscle
To: "'Della Speranza, Vinnie'" 
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