RE: the Results are in!

From:Barry R Rittman

I have not really been following all the emails on this topic but as an
outside observer what is the problem here?
Vinnie carried out a reasonable, albeit brief, survey to get an idea of
what people thought and that is what he got. A statistical survey should
also include years of training, standard paraffin blocks (yes we would
all like to see that), environment (air, humidity, static electricity
etc), type of microtome and so on. Perhaps a survey lasting 4 weeks and
encompassing all the biopsy services in the country would have been nice
but....the fact is that he asked for opinions and got them.  

We really need a survey on hematoxylin and eosin stains, I would suggest
something starting like this:
1.	Do you carry out H and E staining. If no go to end of survey.
2.	What hematoxylin solution do you use?
	How long do you stain?
	What temperature do you stain at? 
		If at room temperature what is the median temperature?
(if 			dramatically changed during different months,
the median 			temperature per month for the past 10
		When do you change the hematoxylin solution?
I think that you get the general idea...

Vinnie, thanks for collecting this "non-statistical" information.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Gill [] 
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 3:47 PM
To: 'Cliff Berger'; 'Vinnie Della Speranza';
Cc: 'Donna McClellan'
Subject: RE: the Results are in!

Cliff's right: it's subjective versus objective; words versus action.
Unsubstantiated opinions are an insufficient basis on which to make
decisions -- though admittedly people do it all the time (e.g., get
married).  ;-)

Gary Gill

-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Berger []
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 3:31 PM
To: 'Vinnie Della Speranza';
Cc: 'Donna McClellan'
Subject: RE: the Results are in!

Actually you can't even conclude that. This opinion poll was not
conducted in accordance with modern statistical theory. Polling can't
work without random sampling. Can you tell us what the margin of error
is for your findings? I only thought that as members of a scientific
community we all should understand that the results you claim are
reliable are completely unreliable.  

I only commented on this from a scientific point of view. I have no
interest in blades.  I don't make them. I don't sell them. I don't use

Furthermore, I never said that opinions are meaningless. I only said
that the manner in which you gathered, tallied and presented the
information is meaningless.  Your 4:1 margin claim has no basis in

Cliff Berger

-----Original Message-----
From: Vinnie Della Speranza [] 
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 12:47 PM
Cc: Donna McClellan
Subject: Re: the Results are in!

you are looking for science where there can be none. I asked the list
for the preferences (which are subjective opinions) of those who have
evaluated different blades. The most that can be concluded from this
poll is that more people buy AccuEdge (by a 4:1 margin) than other
brands. Since this blade costs more, I would presume that those using it
feel that the additional cost is worth it.

Is it really your  intention  to tell those who responded to my query
that their op;inions are meaningless? All I did was count up the replies
and convert to a percent based upon the total number of responses to the

>>> Cliff Berger  06/27/03 11:24AM >>>

In fairness to all the companies making blades, and to those who are
them as well,  everyone should be aware that your   <> has has
statistical merit whatsoever.   This has not been a science behind your
in completely skewed so the results are meaningless.

Best regards,

Cliff Berger

> From: Vinnie Della Speranza 
> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:52:32 -0400
> To: 
> Cc: Donna McClellan 
> Subject: the Results are in!
> thank you to all who responded to my query re: best disposable
> blade
> here are the results:
> Accu-Edge   was recommeded by   55% of respondents. This blade was
> recommended more than four times more frequently than the next
> recommended blade.
> Richard Allen  was recommended by   12.5%  of respondents
> Sturkeywas recommended by   12.5%  of respondents
> Shandon was recommended by  10%  of respondents
> Surgipath was recommended by   5%   of respondents
> DuraEdge was recommended by   5%   of respondents
> Vinnie Della Speranza
> Manager for Anatomic Pathology Services
> Medical University of South Carolina
> 165 Ashley Avenue  Suite 309
> Charleston, SC 29425
> Ph: 843-792-6353
> fax: 843-792-8974

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