RE: GI biopsy blues
So very well said - I never take time to make sure my responses make sense.
thanks for clearing things up.....have a good weekend everybody!!! J:>)
Saint Joseph's Hospital of Atlanta
From: Bryan Hewlett [SMTP:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 5:57 PM
To: rueggp; Weems, Joyce
Cc: SEENRD@aol.com; email@example.com
Subject: Re: GI biopsy blues
I'll just add the following to the very valid comments of Joyce and
It is true that, with some wax formulations, too rapid a cooling can
affect the plasticity of the wax. Which, after storage of the blocks
warmer temperatures appears to restore itself. It is also true that,
amounts of clearing agent in the wax may give a softer consistency
block on initial cutting, while after a time in storage evaporation
surface removes these traces of clearant and the block will now have
harder consistency on recutting.
That said, we have seen the artefact on recuts for special stains
next day. We have also seen it on sections taken over a year later
As I said before, slow recutting cures it!
We have been present during rapid cutting of GI section ribbons,
for demonstration purposes, and finished the ribbon the tech was
After mounting and staining sections from the leading and trailing
of the ribbon, the leading sections(i.e.rapid cuts) showed
trailing sections didn't.
Over the years, we've had our share of pathologists and techs
doubt this explanation for the cause of this very frustrating
The following demonstration has usually stemmed objections. Recut a
which has shown the artefact, after cutting a ribbon rapidly, mount
stain two or three sections. Cut a second ribbon very slowly, mount
Finally, to Patsy.
I enjoyed the description of your visit to the UK. It brought back
memories. I was born and trained in Nottingham(Queen's was being
built as I
left) and spent many hours walking the peak district.Used to go
I must also admit to enjoying a pint or ten at the "Trip".
Bryan R. Hewlett
Department of Anatomical Pathology
Hamilton Regional Laboratory Medicine Program.
----- Original Message -----
To: "Weems, Joyce"
Cc: "'Bryan Hewlett'" ; ;
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: GI biopsy blues
> Joyce is right about polymers hardening with time and heat. Cold
> inhibit polymerization, heat can accelerate polymerization, which
> why putting your block into the heated water bath works better
> "Weems, Joyce" wrote:
> > Let me say this about recutting later......I discussed this with
> > of Anatech several years ago. It would seem that the polymers
> > with time than with cold, therefore allowing for better sections
> > don't have to cut slowly for the recuts - just whack them off
> > likely they'll be ok.
> > I have found this to be one of the most frustrating of artifacts
> > deal with!
> > Another thing I found good was putting the block in the warm
> > a few seconds, then cooling and sectioning. The warm water
> > wonders. The slow...... steady turning of the microtome is
> > first cuts of these creatures, tho.
> > My 2 cents! j:>)
> > Joyce Weems
> > Pathology Manager
> > Saint Joseph's Hospital of Atlanta
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bryan Hewlett [SMTP:firstname.lastname@example.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:56 PM
> > To: SEENRD@aol.com; email@example.com
> > Subject: Re: GI biopsy blues
> > Donna,
> > We process and cut large numbers of GI biopsies daily in
> > laboratories. Only one lab has a processor dedicated to GI
> > other labs process along with the routine surgicals. All three
> > sporadically have some days with microchatter(venetian
> > use NBF for fixation, all use the same processing reagents, all
> > blocks on ice trays, no ammonia water.
> > This cuttting artifact is independent of processing
times, it is
> > seen more readily after short(less than 4 hours) fixation times
> > After all, the shorter the time in NBF the greater the fixation
> > processing alcohols! But the cause is still operator and
> > dependant.
> > The effect is mainly seen on very busy days with
> > are under pressure, either real or imagined, to 'get the work
> > case, when the block has been re-cut and the same operator
> > SLOWLY, the microchatters have been absent!!
> > I would recommend that when any tech in your lab has a
> > episode with a case, carefull, SLOW, re-cuts of the block will
> > problem.
> > Regards
> > Bryan
> > Bryan R. Hewlett
> > Technical Specialist
> > Department of Anatomical Pathology
> > Hamilton Regional Laboratory Medicine Program.
> > Ontario, Canada
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: SEENRD@aol.com
> > To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 5:53 PM
> > Subject: GI biopsy blues
> > Hi Everyone,
> > I am faced with some GI microchatter that has
> > recently. This is a sporadic matter but as of this afternoon, I
> > currently ensued in a battle with my lab manager over the
> > in ammonia water. She thinks everything needs to be soaked, I
say it is
> > necessary but she is insistent and I want to change her mind. I
> > to expose myself to ammonia fumes unecessarily.
> > I have one tech that soaks everything in ammonia
> > there is no difference between her slides and the ones I cut
> > and placed onto wet ice. I am literally at wits end regarding
> > and do not want to submit to "ingesting" ammonia water if at all
> > Are there any articles written on ways to prevent microchatter?
> > thing I should mention is that we process our GI biopsies along
> > other larger samples (breast, colon, thyroid, etc) and
> > out looking great. I am not at work at the moment and can't
> > processing schedule right of the top of my head but the
solutions we are
> > using is as follows: formalin x2, 80% ETOH, 95% ETOH x2, ABS x3,
> > of course infiltrating with paraffin. I will post the exact
> > temps later as I can't recall those now.
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks in
> > Donna Barlow
> > Section Head, Raleigh Community Hospital
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