I am sorry. Reading the previous account I wrongly assumed that the Richard 
Allan stains were dry powders and my comments referred to these. I thank Rande 
Kline for pointing out my error very nicely and back channel.

The definitions of the words "stains" and "dyes" do not differentiate between 
made up solutions and the powder. I failed to think laterally and so must also 
thank Russ Allison for painting the words dyes and stains in black and white. 
According to Collins English Dictionary the definitions of dye includes:
" a liquid that contains a colouring material and can be used to stain . . 
 (the word dyed in that sense is identically). On balance, a dye is more often 
the powder and a stain the solution thereof, but it ain't necessarily so. Don't 
beat me up Allison, English is not my first language.

I also thank Linda Jenkins, she restored my self-confidence. She still had not 
noted that I was talking powders and that she is talking about liquids. So I 
was not alone. I am pleased that Linda shows the same kind of enthusiasm I had 
only 35 years ago, when my roof top ripened Haemtoxylin solutions turned out 
magnificently stained slides.
Ah, the world is changing, maybe Woolworth will stock made-up dyes soon.
Cheers
Jim Darley

PS As I type, four inch/h rain is hammering on the roof. A cyclone is expected 
in 6 hours close to us. Only a "small" one with 130km/h winds.

ProSciTech                 Microscopy PLUS
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On Thursday, March 30, 2000 8:46 PM, jim [SMTP:jim@proscitech.com.au] wrote:
> Is this an urban myth? I have no doubt that Richard-Allan's stains are good,
> in fact they are probably every bit as good as ours. I am half a world away
> and don't see Richard Allan as a competitor, but believe that the myth, that
> certain suppliers make stains is bordering on the fantastic. Stains are made
> by giant companies such as Hoechst, BASF, ICI, Dupont. Some are made by
> smaller dye manufacturers including some in third-world countries. Many dyes
> are made by one manufacturer only. Typically those dyes are purchased in
> hundreds of kg by wholesalers and most can be tested and certified by the
> Biological Staining Commission. Our business does not make stains and we
> don't test stains. You ought to be concerned about any supplier making such
> claims and question their veracity or indeed the quality of the supplied
> materials. Any supplier offering "certified" stains is offering effectively
> the same goods. The difference for the buyer is reliability delivery, price
> and good communication.
> Criminal behaviour, such as selling uncertified stains as certified I believe
> is very, very rare.
> Cheers
> Jim Darley
> ProSciTech                 Microscopy PLUS
> PO Box 111, Thuringowa  QLD  4817  Australia
> Ph +61 7 4774 0370  Fax:+61 7 4789 2313  service@proscitech.com
> Great microscopy catalogue, 500 Links, MSDS, User Notes
>                       www.proscitech.com


Dear Jim,

It would greatly help the debate if you were to clarify exactly what
you mean by "stains" and what you mean by "dyes"

Contrary to your statement, there are very many thousands of labs
making stains and very few, sometimes only one, "institution",
making dyes.

I usually buy both myself. [work that one out!]

yours colourfully,

Russ Allison,
Dental School
Cardiff
Wales

>
> On Thursday, March 30, 2000 9:21 AM, MacDonald, Jennifer
> [SMTP:jmacdonald@sach.org] wrote:
> > We also use Richard Allen stains and are very happy with them.  We also
> > using the Bluing Reagent, Clarifier and the Clear-Rite 3.
> >
> > Jennifer MacDonald
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: 	Linda Jenkins[SMTP:jlinda@ces.clemson.edu]
> > > Sent: 	Wednesday, March 29, 2000 8:23 AM
> > > To: 	histonet@pathology.swmed.edu
> > > Subject: 	Richard-Allan Stains
> > >
> > > 	Laurie Colbert  wondered, "Is Richard Allan a common denominator
> > > with everyone who is having problems?????"
> > > 	My thoughts on this - I have used Richard-Allan hematoxylin, eosin,
> > > clarifier, bluing, and cytology stains practically since their arrival in
> > > the marketplace (late '70's - mid-eighties?).  The ONLY consistent,
> > > reliable procedure I've NEVER had to "tweak" in the last 20 years has
> > > been
> > > my H &E stain - as it is beautiful!  In fact, in 1990, when I was first
> > > introduced to the gentleman (Jerry Fredenburg) who was responsible for
> > > the
> > > development of these wonderful chemicals I immediately hugged him and
> > > said,
> > > "Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!"  In fact, all of our area labs have
> > > used
> > > these stains with great results.
> > > 	Now, in all fairness, I must add that I use real Xylenes for
> > > clearing and graded ethanols for dehydration.  Have not been seen
> > > consistent results with substitutes.
> > > 	And, as a final note, I remember thinking that the original
> > > question that started this query had a processing procedure that went
> > > straight from formalin to 100%alcohol.  Isn't this a little odd?  Doesn't
> > > everyone use graded alcohols?
> > > 	Oh, well...I just didn't want techs, who've never used them, to get
> > > the wrong impression about Richard-Allan stains.
> > > 	Linda
> > >
> > >
> > > *********************************
> > > Linda Jenkins, HT
> > > Clemson University
> > > Department of Bioengineering
> > > 864.656.5553
> > > **********************************
> > >